I rarely like Andy Katz or anything that comes out of his mouth, but that was a good article. Great find 7teen.
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I rarely like Andy Katz or anything that comes out of his mouth, but that was a good article. Great find 7teen.
bird and magic may have changed the game...but jordan changed how players play the game.
<div class="ubbcode-block"><div class="ubbcode-header">Originally Posted By: yankeebaseball</div><div class="ubbcode-body">Lebron and Kobe will both exceed all accomplishments of both Bird and Jordan. Its simply the evolution of the game.</div></div>
Lebron and Kobe didn't have to spend any time playing college ball either. They'll play more seasons as a pro so of course they will accomplish more.
Back to the topic. I'd go with Jordan. He was well rounded as a player.
No Bird/Magic=No NBA=No Jordan
It is also noted that Jordan entered the league in '84-'85 and didn't win a title until '91 (that was over an aging Magic). During that time period Bird/Magic won multiple titles.
What I'm trying to say is that M.J. didn't win his first until Bird/Magic were ready to retire. I personally would never rank him ahead of those two. Even the playoff game where he scored 63 points, he lost, to Larry Legend.
<div class="ubbcode-block"><div class="ubbcode-header">Originally Posted By: Glory_Days</div><div class="ubbcode-body">bird and magic may have changed the game...but jordan changed how players play the game. </div></div>
Yes, and not for the better.
How many people care about the NBA anymore?
Jordan elevated players to be more sizzle, less steak. That's not saying Jordan himself wasn't steak, but how many people equate Jordan with defense? You think Jordan, you think dunk. You don't think skillset, you think athletic ability.
Bird/Jordan helped inspire the generation with Jordan
Jordan helped inspire ...a bunch of foreign players, because thats what most of your NBA players are now. Bigger guys who can handle the ball, post up, pass, shoot inside or outside. Bird/Magic either one could do that, Bird could play the inside game, could play the outside game, many times was the point guard, or whatever. Same with Magic.
Jordan is/was great, and probably was the most athletic player ever, but I don't think he was the best player. I mean the phrase "Jordan rules" didn't come about because he was treated quite equal [img]/LDPforum/ubbthreads/images/%%GRAEMLIN_URL%%/smile.gif[/img]
In response to twentyseven, your statement is true. Jordan did not win a title until Magic and Bird were on the decline. However, that has a lot to do with Jordan only being in the league for 5 years, being drafted to a bad team, and having to learn how to become the dominate player he eventually was. Jordan in his first few years was nowhere near the player he was in the late 90's.
I would not expect anyone to enter the league on a bad team and lead them to a championship right away. Not going to happen. In his later years however, Jordan along with the team he helped build, such as the late 90's Bulls, would have competed and possibly won a fair share of championships against Bird and Magic's teams.
In response to Rocketer, it is true Jordan was extremely athletic and had "sizzle". However, if someone told me they thought Jordan was more about the "sizzle" than the "steak", I would question if they know anything about basketball. A true student of the game would clearly see how much "steak" Jordan had in his game. Just because Bird made it look hard and Jordan made it look easy, is insignificant. True, Jordan was MUCH more athletic than Bird, but that doesn't mean he did not have to work as hard to get to the top. Remember, he was cut from the j.v. team as a sophmore at a high school that is not exactly a basketball powerhouse. To say Jordan did bust his butt everyday is comical.
I will say however, that all of these players deserve their right to be called one of the greatest. Bird was the ultimate competitor and perhaps the most skilled. He indeed had to work very hard for everything he earned. Magic was a complete player with hardly any weaknesses. He was one of the most unselfish players the game has seen and a natural leader. I personally can see arguments for all three as being the best. However, I give my vote to Jordan. I do not look very deep into statistics because they can be very misleading, but one stat of Jordan's I will throw out to you guys is 72 wins in a season. Absolutely amazing! You can say he played on a great team, which is true. But, how great would they have been without Jordan? Decent, at best. He refused to lose. He did EVERYTHING and ANYTHING it took to win whether it be scoring 50 or holding the oppossing teams best player to 10. The game is about winning, and although all three of these guys were definately winners, Jordan was the best winner the game has seen.
I'm gonna go to the Big Mac shots for this one.
I can contradict your 72 wins theory. There were 4 new teams added to the NBA by the 90s that were not around in the 80s. Watered down league helped the Bulls achieve those 72 wins.
The Bulls of the late 80s with Jordan were lucky to be the 3rd best team in the East. It took the aging and retiring of the Celtic greats and Piston greats for the Bulls to get out of the East.
Jordan ranks #3 on my list. Behind Magic and Bird.
Agreed 7teen.
My rank would be Magic, Bird, Jordan. All 3 are great even though I never liked Jordan because in the 90s he got away with everything. Like CoeburnCane said, I want Magic on my team. He could guard anyone, and play any possession. Nash is the only person I have seen who comes close to taking the ball and creating more for his opponents like Magic did.
Just a tidbit to your Jordan being on a bad team.
In 1977-78 the Celtics had compiled a 32-50 record, their worst since 1949-50. When Bird elected to return to Indiana State for one more year the Celtics dipped to 29-53, but Bird finally came to Boston for the 1979-80 campaign and sparked one of the greatest single-season turnarounds in NBA history.
The 1979-80 Celtics improved by 32 games to 61-21 and returned to the top of their division
Magic's affect
Despite the early ouster, the pieces were beginning to settle into place for the Lakers. During the 1978-79 season the team got a sneak preview of the future with Kareem Abdul-Jabbar, Jamaal Wilkes, and Norm Nixon all turning in fine performances. The club posted a 47-35 record.
The 1979-80 season was one of intense drama for the Lakers. With the team at 10-4, Head Coach Jack McKinney suffered a serious injury in a bicycle accident and was replaced by Paul Westhead. The Lakers rallied to finish the season at 60-22, tops in the Pacific Division.
Jordan
Bulls were 27-55 the year before him. 38-44 with him.
Now if I was going to say who improved their team.
Jordan's Bulls +11
Magic's Lakers +13
Bird's Celtics +32
I realize other factors weigh in, other talent that arrived, etc but to say that Jordan had so much less talent, seems a bit of a stretch since the pre-Bird Celtics won exactly 2 more games than the pre-MJ Bulls did. Both went to bad teams, and I'll agree that Jordan later in his career was a different player, and better player, than he was at first. You said you wouldn't expect someone to enter the league on a bad team and lead them to the championship right away. Well Bird led the Celtics to the Eastern Conference Finals, and Magic lead the Lakers (who weren't a bad team going by their previous year record) to the championship.
So maybe don't know the game, but I know that you hear people called "the next Jordan" not because of their all around game but because of their dunking and air...see Harold Minor aka Baby Jordan, which to me is a lot more sizzle than steak.